"The Black Man Talking Emotions Podcast" Starring Dom L'Amour
"The Black Man Talking Emotions Podcast" Starring Dom L'Amour
Kendrick vs Drake: Artistic Rivalry and Hip-Hop's Cultural Impact with Jon Butts
Dom L'Amour speaks with Friend of the show J Boogie AKA Jon Butts AKA @jonbuttsishere!
Can Kendrick Lamar's lyrical genius outshine Drake's chart-topping dominance? Join us on the Black Man Talking Emotions podcast as we navigate this intricate rivalry with our insightful guest, Jon Butts. We'll revisit the explosive moment Kendrick's "control" verse shook the hip-hop world and dissect how the tension between these two titans illuminates the fine line between pure artistry and commercial success. While unpacking their professional dynamics, we also weigh in on public perceptions of other influential figures like Young Thug and Sexy Red, offering fresh insights into the ever-evolving hip-hop landscape.
In our heartfelt exploration of Kendrick Lamar's discography, we celebrate the monumental impact of albums like "To Pimp a Butterfly" and "Good Kid, M.A.A.D City," sharing personal reflections on their storytelling prowess. The conversation takes a critical turn as we scrutinize Drake's reliance on ghostwriters, particularly in "Take Care," and question how this practice measures up against the self-written standards set by hip-hop legends like LL Cool J and Rakim. With comparisons to Kanye West's "Graduation," we ponder the balance between mainstream appeal and thematic depth in contemporary hip-hop.
Bringing warmth and personal touch, we shift to notable moments within the hip-hop community, examining Drake's relationship with Lil Wayne and the broader cultural impact of events like Kendrick's Super Bowl performance. We also consider the influence of hip-hop on personal identities and cultural narratives, reflecting on the communal spirit of the Los Angeles Lakers and the legacies of Kobe Bryant and Nipsey Hussle. From artistic beefs to independent music endeavors, this episode captures the essence of hip-hop's vibrant culture, its challenges, and its ongoing evolution.
Opening quote: Kendrick Lamarr
Opening and Closing Theme song: Produced by Dom L'Amour
Transition Music from Mad Chops Vol. 1 and Mad Chops Vol. 2 by Mad Keys
and
from Piano Soul Vol.1(Loop Pack) by The Modern Producers Team
Featured song: "Valentines Day" By Dom L'Amour
Cover art by Studio Mania: Custom Art @studiomania99
Please subscribe to the podcast, and give us a good rating. 5 stars please and thank you. Follow me on @dom_lamour on Instagram. Or at
how does? Where does that line blur? Where does it become? Black and white is, and then it becomes. It becomes that business thing. When you look through the lens of business it's like, yeah, man, you've just been positioning yourself to ingratiate your own bank account. Yeah, like you could give two shits if young thug gets locked up. You give two shits about the perception of sexy red and whatever it's. It's empty. That's where it feels like a little empty I want to give. I want to give drake a little bit of credit, because I have, I have tried to be a fan of his, but he makes it really really really hard. Yeah, really really really hard.
Speaker 2:Ladies and gentlemen, and anyone else who is here, my name is Don Lamour and you are listening to the Black man Talking Emotions podcast. On today's episode, I speak with a friend of the show, john Butts, about Kendrick Lamar's historic shakedown of Drake and the state of hip hop right now. If my edge is dull, my sword is dull, and I don't want to fight another guy whose sword is dull. If you've got two steel swords going back and forth hitting each other, what's going to happen? And back and forth hitting each other, what's going to happen? Both of them are going to get sharper. Everybody that's in the industry has lost their edge. Normally, you and I would be talking babies, we'll be talking politics, stuff that is, you know, absolutely depressing right now. So, so, other than babies, babies are great. How are the babies doing? Babies are good. Yeah, that's good. The babies.
Speaker 1:I'm not the babies aren't depressing.
Speaker 2:The world right now is depressing, and I feel like every time I talk about it I get a little bit more kind of uneasy. So instead of doing that to you this time, I want to give you a fun episode. It's Black History Month we out here living. So to avoid all of that completely, I want to talk about the real news.
Speaker 1:Kendrick Lamar won five Grammys.
Speaker 2:Oh man, let's go. He called Drake a PDF file, called Drake a PDF file and the audience sang A minor as he accepted the record of the year Grammy. I would love to just do a deep dive into the history of this beef and your feelings and different things that you feel about this. I just feel like it's necessary. He performed at the Super Bowl. I need to really process how he just destroyed Drake and I want to know how you feel. So go ahead and take it away. How do you feel about what's going on? I hear it's called the Shakespearean shakedown that he did.
Speaker 1:I haven't heard that one yet, but that's real yeah.
Speaker 2:Justin Hunt. Shout out to Justin Hunt.
Speaker 1:That's my guy. It's all happening. One second applause.
Speaker 2:One second applause, yes. How do you feel about everything that's going on?
Speaker 1:with this beef. There's a little distance for me, because I think that he hit all of the high points and when I say this man is on his 10th victory lap, it don't make no sense. It's like I don't know where the entry point is for this conversation. But so let's just no. No, we're doing a complete overview of everything.
Speaker 2:Okay, everything, even this.
Speaker 1:We can go as far back as the poetic justice I mean I don't know the specifics of where the parting ways mentally happened.
Speaker 2:It's easy.
Speaker 1:It was control. Oh, okay, yeah, control. But I feel like it was before control because you brought up poetic justice. As I've digested it, there was Drake bringing Kendrick into the fold, so to speak. Yeah, he was on tour with him Giving him that boost and he kind of just saw how the sausage got made at OVO. He was like you gotta be kidding me. You talk about this.
Speaker 1:I've been out here in the projects rap battling. I went from K-Dot trying to do these Lil Wayne type verses to like no, I'm shedding that moniker, and like really becoming an artist and we over here doing kind of recycled, just reference tracks and all that, at least to my understanding. That's where Kendrick's perspective on Drake shifted. Now the control verse man, I remember where I was. I was in Virginia working for Colonial Williamsburg Shout out to them, they're doing great work in the apartment. And I was.
Speaker 1:I was in Virginia working for Colonial Williamsburg Shout out to them, they're doing great work in the apartment. And I was like okay, I'm hearing buzz about this control verse, let me just put it on. I usually be homies with the same niggas I'm rhyming with yeah, and to me that's the sport, if you're not in it, to kind of have that back and forth and spar a little bit with your contemporaries, then you shouldn't be in it. A lot of people took that in stride. A lot of people tried to write their own response verses. It didn't really make a splash for many other people other than Drake and you fast forward. Was it the BET cypher freestyle?
Speaker 2:oh yeah tuck the sensitive rapper back in his pajama clothes like and everyone knew who he was talking about, because Drake did that interview and he was talking to the guy like it was a good moment, but like let me ask you, uh, how does that verse start? And the whole audience burst into laughing and it was like if I was Kendrick and I saw that I'd have been like, oh, I'm taking him out, I'm totally taking him out because he was so petty and then he tried to give him backhanded little. Well, he's a fantastic artist. You know what I'm saying. But you know I think about works of art. You know what I'm saying. I really focus on doing full projects. You know and this is coming from a guy I'm not sure how you feel about it, but I don't think he has a classic album personally Ooh, okay.
Speaker 2:The only one. If you were like what is a classic, I would say so Far Gone. And that was a mixtape, wow, wow. And the reason why I say it is because that truly was his hype to me. He did that and his hype was in the atmosphere at that point, because at that point you had Lil Wayne taking over the world. He was the best rapper alive and Lil Wayne allowed this dude to be on so many songs with him that when you listened to him you were like, hey, he's hanging with Lil Wayne. Lil Wayne's the best rapper alive. He must be great. And that's the only reason why he got out the door. If he wasn't rhyming next to Lil Wayne, he wouldn't have been pushed to where he was pushed, because Lil Wayne literally was selling a million records a week Right but the cosigns are important, you know, and that that kind of circles back to the Kendrick attachment a little bit For me.
Speaker 1:I can't, where the debate happens, take care for me. Yes Is nothing was the same, a classic question mark. A lot of people say, yes, I'm kind of on the fence. It's been a while and I haven't listened to it enough recently to be able to make a call on that. But Drake, I watched a little bit of the 100 gigs because it was post the beef a little bit. I had some distance from the catastrophe that happened for him. I wasn't throwing a pity party because I don't really hold Drake up in that high of an esteem at this point, but I was curious, what was this? And you kind of see the Ovo factory and you see the exchange of the ideas and you can see that Drake really cares about this music stuff. But it's more so his non-body of workness post those two albums I just mentioned To me. Where Drake started to falter was after Nothing Was the Same, where it became. I'm this algorithmic artist, I am the hit maker.
Speaker 2:Therefore I have to cater to the wave, I'm going to make mixtapes and playlists instead of albums. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:You can play that in the hookah bar, you can play that at brunch, but as students of hip hop, that only goes so far. Hip hop started with a message and that's what Kendrick said at the Grammys in his speech Like this is our craft. Hip hop made this and you have to be a student of this. You got to love this. This is the culture.
Speaker 2:The question I ask people when they tell me Take Care is a classic you have Good Kid Mad City, you have Pimple Butterfly Damn, Just those three.
Speaker 1:Where does Take Care rank with those three albums? That's a good question. I think this depends on the Kendrick fan that you're speaking to, because I think there's a sliding, or those three albums change slots depending upon who you are. I'm a person who maybe revisits Good Kid Mad City the least, so I would say those two albums are in a similar weight class. But Take Care is a sophomore album, whereas Good Kid Mad City is a mainstream debut.
Speaker 1:And I do give Drake some credit for iterating off of Thank Me Later, because that was overly poppy and overly catering. He was using an old formula that didn't really work at that time. He was kind of using like the jay-z or whomever formula where you craft your album based on the hit maker, producers and names, whereas take care got him closer to that ovo sound, that toronto sound, but also shout out tond, because he's kind of pioneering that cold, ominous feeling and he wrote half of that album Exactly. But I hear you. I hear you. I'm not here to say that because so Far Gone is such a good mixtape. Yes, and it was at the tail end. We're closing the curtain on the blog era and we're entering the streaming era, I would say that might have been the last great mixtape.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I feel that I have to double check when friday night lights came out.
Speaker 1:But around the same time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know they came, but like if it came out afternoon it wasn't the last one, because friday night lights I listened to that last night. Wow, I still bump that because it's on apple music now. Okay, so it's too deep for the intro Got to come through at least once or twice. I always ask that because in my head, with what I just saved you those three albums and I include Mr Morale or GNX, because it would be even worse with those in there, because I love those albums too.
Speaker 2:I personally, the first time I heard To Pimp a Butterfly, I remember listening all the way through it and I'd never done this with any album ever in my life. I finished the album after Mortal man. Hearing Tupac's conversation with Kendrick, I turned it off. I stopped because I think I listened to the CD and I was like I think that's the greatest hip hop album I've ever heard in my life. I still remember saying that out loud to myself. I think that's the best album I've ever listened to.
Speaker 2:It was mind-blowing how good that was and, granted, over the years it got to a point where I didn't listen to it a lot. But now I go back and I'm like I don't know why I don't listen to this as much as I do, because I really love this album. So that's number one easily. It's not even a discussion for me. Good, kid Mad City's number two I revisit that one all the time and see I'm different than you. I just feel like the storytelling and the production that Dre did on that album is flawless. And then Damn is the next one. Take Care is on the list for me. I understand why people loved it.
Speaker 1:It had some hits, but as a full project I don't really like the Weeknd, so that might also add to it, yeah, and I think where it gets harder for me to speak to this retrospective a little bit is because I'm so contemporary minded yeah, like I will chase what's new over enjoying what used to be. Yeah, I remember the vibes that I was feeling when To Pimp a Butterfly came out too, and just feeling so like this is a transcendent record. This is Quincy Jones level enshrined in music history level. Project Good Kid Mad City is very cinematic when I think about it and the storytelling is impeccable from front to back.
Speaker 1:As a concept Damn to me kind of rolled back a little bit of the loftiness of both of those attempts, was able to deliver some of those themes in a mainstream way and made those themes palatable for a mainstream audience. Everything is there. I think it has a little bit more of a edge to it. This is him having those successes with Good Kid Maddie City and To Pimp a Butterfly, and now he's kind of retrospecting on his success and it becomes a little bit more introspective for him.
Speaker 2:To jump on that, a comparison that I always do when it comes to those three albums. I always feel like damn is Kendrick's graduation by Kanye West, because by the time he got to that album, kanye's whole purpose was to make this as big as stadiums. He wanted to be able to do these songs and it sound incredible in stadiums. That's how he was thinking about making it so big. So it was more mainstream. It was more of that like uh, and I felt like Damn was the same way. I mean the single for that is Humble. You hear that Humble. It hits way different than anything else that he's played on any of his other albums. So I agree with you and, like I said, we don't have to stay on this. I understand the idea of Drake and everyone's going to have different perspectives when it comes down to it, but for me, as a person who loves the art form and it is an art form that is very specific. Other places, like country music, they don't care if you write your own music. As long as you sang good, that's all that matters.
Speaker 2:People try to put Drake in the hip hop world when they want him there and then they try to excuse him just because they like him To say that he's the best rapper, does he write all of his stuff? Take care, we've literally heard we can wrote half of that album. Right, if that's his only classic album and he didn't even write it, why is he even being considered in this discussion? And that breaks my heart because it doesn't really matter. Everyone's going to like what they like. But in my head it's like as a hip hop fan LL Cool J didn't have people writing his songs. Rakim didn't have people writing his songs. Krs-one did not have people writing his songs.
Speaker 1:In the 90s, one of the main media touchstones about hip hop was oh, look at all of my books of rhymes, yeah.
Speaker 2:my notebooks yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I 100% see what you mean there, and that's where the line gets blurry. It's not even blurry at this point, it's overt. But Drake was able to use hip hop to be a pop artist able to use hip hop to be a pop artist. While he has the capabilities and certainly has done his diligence in being able to rap, it's just not from the same place. It's like he's an outsider to some degree yeah, and see what you're saying right there.
Speaker 2:I just had this discussion with someone, the the other day where it made me feel like he used the Lil Wayne for his clout, got the clout and disrespected Lil Wayne. I mean, literally, kendrick called it out and it's so true. Like you don't do that to people that you respect. So it's obvious he's over the top about how great of a person he is. He thinks he's so good that he can do whatever he wants and treat people who literally gave him a career. Lil Wayne co-signing him is the only reason why we know who Drake is, doesn't matter what you say, it doesn't matter how talented he is. Lil Wayne said he was dope. We all love Lil Wayne.
Speaker 2:Drake was the next one up and then Baby was like screw you, lil Wayne, you can't release music anymore. I'm going to pump up Drake. And Drake became the biggest one. That's what happened. And so what you're saying, right there, is true. He was an outsider. He's this dude from Canada who came in and he was singing Trey Songz tunes and then he did a couple of tunes where he was rapping and people loved his rap, and now he's claiming he's the best rapper, like Lil Wayne. And it's like Lil Wayne writes all his raps. Lil Wayne, can I'll rap you now?
Speaker 1:Lil Wayne was the one to tell him when he was starting to blow up. It was like, just don't try to do any of that hard stuff Like you're from Canada, bro, you were on the, you were on the grassy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Keep it kind of lovey dovey almost.
Speaker 2:And it sucks Cause. I think back to the troll and I remember I've always been on the outside of this. Wale was my guy and J Cole was my guy and J Cole was my guy, and Wale fell off real fast. I will fully admit, the last project I liked of Wale's before the album about nothing. Because that was the next project. I was like that's actually a good project, but more about nothing.
Speaker 2:The mixtape was like the first thing that I fell in love with and he had a couple of good tracks on Ambition and different things, but like he didn't really do anything after that he has a couple of singles. That's about it. J Cole, of course, is a part of the big three, and I still call him a part of the big three. In my opinion, he'll always be synonymous with these three people. I remember hearing Control being like oh man, those are my guys. It's dope that that Kendrick said that, but I still would. But when Drake came out and he was talking about all of that stuff, it was like, oh man, I don't know if I like him anymore. I remember Control was when I stopped really liking Drake, because before that he couldn't miss with me. At first, like you, though, his albums weren't great when he was on the Young Money album, and he did the Flintstones song.
Speaker 1:What's the?
Speaker 2:song Every Girl in the World. Yeah, yeah, it was like that right there. That verse was crazy and I was like man, this dude is dope. He has so much swag he kills it. And we moved forward.
Speaker 2:He was more on that backpack type of rap at that point too yeah, and I will say one song, like I would say the peak of drake, in my opinion, would have been sicko mode. When sicko mode came out, that was the first time I was like, okay, I get it, this dude is incredible and this song is good because of drake. Travis scott killed it on. There'm not going to say he didn't, but the lines that you remember are the ones Drake said Checks over stripes. That's what I like, like you, only remember Drake's parts I repeat his parts over and over from that song, and so I remember that being incredible. But I still didn't give him the crown. And when fast forwardinging, when first person shooter mode came out, oh my god, it's so incredible to see what's happened since then.
Speaker 2:I remember hearing big as a super bowl and j cole clearly outshining drake on that song. Right, clearly it was the number one song in the country and I was like j cole. The reason why? Because he was so good on that track. And then Drake had his I'm about to part at the end where he switches it up and he makes it seem like he's so hard on the drill beat or whatever, and it's like what is he doing? Like literally he ruined the mood of the song at the end of the song and I was like ugh, he's not what he I mean. Mean, the idea that this song is such a big hit isn't because of him. It's because of because of jay cole killing it. And who's the biggest artist? Mc me, aubrey or kendrick like that? That line is the thing that you remember. We did big three, like we started to leave. But right now I feel like muhammad ali, like I'm like, yeah, jay cole is old.
Speaker 1:the end of spider-Man meme line. Yes, the Spider-Man meme is me looking at Drake.
Speaker 2:It's like okay, and that was the thing it was like. If you're saying that kind of stuff, maybe you are taking Kendrick out of it, and so to go full circle, where they start the song saying Biggest Super Bowl and then Kendrick is the only one out of the three of them to actually perform at the Super Bowl. He's already done it. He's already performed at the Super Bowl. People have to remember that this isn't his first time performing at the Super Bowl, but they made a song saying Biggest Super Bowl when he already had performed at the Super Bowl and now he's doing his own set at the Super Bowl. Well, he done it and killed it. The pop out the video. The video like I could go on and like the idea album release, the oh my god, gnx. All 12 songs were the top of the list. Each song on this album was top of the list.
Speaker 1:That never, never in history, has someone had one, two, three, four, five on an album like that that's where they try to get them, though they always try to get them at numbers, but numbers matter to a degree, but it's always been the quality and the craft at the end of the day. With gnx if we're just touching on that, you marry the numbers with the listenability, with the la sort of community building aspect of gnx doing something that everyone said he couldn't do make a la focused album, something that's not heavy-handed come on.
Speaker 2:And when I tell you gnx was my most listened to album last year and it came out in December. It is true, it came out in December and it was my most listened to album. Dude, it was on repeat. It reminded me of victory lap okay, that's a fair comparison that felt like GNX.
Speaker 2:Gnx felt like that because when you're in LA and you listen to Victory Lap anywhere you at, doesn't matter what part of it if you put your window down and someone is in the car next to you, they're like that is an album that everyone respects on the West Coast. And GNX that Dodger Blue driving down Sepulveda. I can only imagine how it is in LA listening to that album. But I go back. That's going to be the first thing that hey Now say now Are you serious? This album was so unique and it was also him, just purely just demonstrating. This is how good I am.
Speaker 2:Y'all think I can't do like hits here's hits for you. Y'all think I can't do some soft lovey-dovey stuff? Here's Luther for you. I can't do like hits here's hits for you. Y'all think I can't do some soft lovey-dovey stuff? Here's Luther for you. Like I can do all of this and I can do squabble up and I could do whacked out murals. A literally six minute song starting the album, talking crazy about everyone with operatic Spanish, and you stay in it. You don't lose. You don't lose any steam throughout the entire album. By the time you get the TV off, you'd already been bumping so much you almost tired, and then it brings you back. You're like, oh my God. And then the worst part is all the songs that we've said hey, now, say, now is the only one that might be competing for my favorite song, but the hard part six is maybe my favorite.
Speaker 1:I don't know what my favorite song is, because it's so fucking good yeah, the flowers, giving the flowers a sensitive it's, it's an homage, it's like it's got some remnants of the mr morale and sort of that transparency. Yeah, the gmX is insane and I listen to that album like I'm from LA. That's the feeling it gives. I've never lived in Los Angeles a day in my life. I visited. But I'm like poser when that album comes out.
Speaker 2:And the thing is all right. So, of course big thing that just happened for LA Luka Doncic is going to the Lakers. So, like my LA oh, I see the Lakers shirt. My LA people are going crazy. Every time I look at my phone there's another text about what you're going to do. I might actually get a Luka Doncic jersey, because the Lakers was the only team that I ever really kind of followed. Okay, I never followed a team in basketball because I'm a huge basketball fan. I followed the whole league.
Speaker 2:But when I lived in la it's a laker city, so I was like you know, I'm here yeah, I'm gonna watch lakers and ever since then I've kind of kept up with the lakers more than any other team, and with luca I, like you know what. I might be a Lakers fan. I might actually be a legit Lakers fan and have my Eastern Conference team be the Hawks and my Western Conference team be the Lakers, because I love going to see the Hawks play here in Atlanta and LA. I have so many memories going to Staples. I saw Lou Williams hit the game winner on the Nets when I was there. It was so incredible. So with all of that, I bring that up because I lived there for five years and I understood how people came together there when Kobe died. That was one of the craziest months in LA.
Speaker 2:I'll never forget the feeling in the city, how people mourned him, how everyone was leaning on each other to get through that. He was bigger than Magic Johnson in my opinion. And when he died, when Nipsey died oh my God, when Nipsey passed away, when Nipsey died, oh my God. When Nipsey passed away, the city didn't feel like it was okay. It felt like it was grieving together. And I was driving for Lyft that day at his funeral and I had the funeral on the radio and everyone who got in the car kind of man. I remember the first time I heard Nipsey man. He was such a big deal in la, so for the pop out to have this incredible moment with all of these different gang affiliated people on stage in complete harmony, peace, everyone. Behind this one guy who's doing it right like he didn't do anything wrong. He was just rapping Right. Drake, literally, was putting money in the streets to get dirt on this dude instead of just rapping. Kendrick came out and said I'm just going to out-rap him. He did Easy.
Speaker 2:It was another day and I personally think I've only seen a couple of historic hip-hop moments. You know what I'm saying and when I say that I'm thinking like you know, it's kind of like when Walk this Way came out for Run DMC. Like when I say moments in hip hop that that moment had to happen for us to be where we are. Sugar Hill Gang, ll Cool J, I Need Love song coming out, changed everything. Parents just don't understand Little moments like that where it's like, oh my god, summer jam, jay-z, dissonance, stuff like that, yeah, where you think of it and you're like, oh my god, when I think of those moments.
Speaker 2:Jadakiss during the dip set versus and it zooms in on his face and he does new york. New york is one of the greatest hip-hop moments of all time. I remember watching it saying this is hip-hop history right here. That's something that will be on the slideshow. If people are like, what is hip-hop, that will be the way it starts.
Speaker 1:This is Kiss. I'm outside.
Speaker 2:That's how it would start. The pop-out is maybe the most incredible event I've ever seen in hip-hop. I remember the first BET Awards. I remember watching Jay-Z's the Black Album concert. The Watch the Throne concert was just an incredible moment for hip hop. Kanye going against 50 Cent on that album was an incredible moment for hip hop. I have these moments but I'm like, when you think about the impact the pop out had on the culture and the like, I said the fact that he did it right.
Speaker 2:It was all about the bars. He even said you should keep it friendly. This is a philly fay. I'm just a disclaimer don't say names. You don't have to get the smoke and drake couldn't, because he's not a true hip-hop dude.
Speaker 2:In my opinion, this dude only knows how to feed on emotions. He was lying on a lot of stuff. I mean the idea that you would feel the need to send a fake daughter to kendrick because you want to mess him. It's like that song meet the grams, come on. When I think of that song, I don't think about the fact that he called out you having another daughter. That's maybe on the end of the burner. There's a lot of stuff he said in that song that he could take that whole verse out and it still would be like you suck Drake. It doesn't matter about this one thing that you lied to me about. Everything else around that still matters. And he called out his personality. I think that's something that I do, that a lot of people don't. I look at my artists as role models, as people that I'm inspired by John Legend's, my favorite singer, and it's not only because of his music being incredible, it's because he was relatable.
Speaker 2:His first couple albums he was talking about cheating on girls and how he's working through that and this and that, and I'm like, oh man, this is a different perspective, something I never heard before. I never heard someone be open about that because, for sure, growing up, I had a lot of people in my life that was unfaithful to their girlfriends, but they would keep it on the low low. This dude was openly singing about it, making tunes and talking about how he struggles with it. I'm doing it again, I'm doing it again. He's saying it in the song with it. I'm doing it again, I'm doing it again. He's saying it in the song.
Speaker 2:And each album you watched him progress. First two he was single. His third album is when he started dating Chrissy and he even says it on the album do I have a girlfriend? Well, technically no, and Chrissy hated that line because he was like you do have a girlfriend. And then after that he was about to get married All of me is on the next album. And then he's married with kids. They're talking about making some little tax write-offs and then he's a grown man after that and I love watching him grow.
Speaker 2:I love hearing his story. I love following his story, his podcast, the meals that he makes. He's an incredible cook. I love his story. I saw him perform at the Muni in St Louis with the St Louis Symphony and it was one of the most incredible performances I've ever seen in my life and that's the type of person I try to follow. Everyone can be that. I know that. I understand there are a lot of artists and there's artists I struggle with. I struggle with Chris Brown. I artists and it's artists I struggle with. I struggle with chris brown. I still struggle with chris brown. I struggle with michael jackson.
Speaker 2:I struggle with so many artists, kanye, I can't even listen to kanye like I used to right because of the things he done and, like he, I think he might have had a new album last year. I didn't even listen to the new album that was.
Speaker 1:This is the first kind of album I didn't listen to you can only do so much, separating the artistry from the artist Exactly, especially right now and I don't want to digress too much, but I think in terms of contributing to art work on himself, but also simultaneously mastering a craft that is really hard to do and making the craft captivating and being dynamic and iterative, like changing up the formula and not being formulaic. It's what, similarly to John Legend, it's what makes Kendrick specifically a captivating artist too. Yes, because, going back to the pop out, that was a meaningful moment that was bigger than rap. That is the idea of sort of a LA ceasefire, almost. It's like that palpably important, even if it's not the thing that stops it for good. It is goodwill and good faith and progress towards something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he makes music that electrifies him and Drake makes his music that pacifies him.
Speaker 1:I'll double down on that line.
Speaker 2:You know what.
Speaker 1:I'm saying it's random, mexico, come on.
Speaker 2:So when you sit down and you think about all of what I just said, I feel like you got to understand why it's hard for me to even respect Drake after what's happened, because the stuff that Kendrick was saying about him is stuff that I I thought about. I'm like ah, he does. He's on this song with sexy red. Is he taking advantage of her clout in the hood? It and she's from St Louis. I'm like this is somebody that I I'm going to support no matter what Cause. That's my person. And he is right there on her, her tails and her tails. And she's this big star and everybody's saying, well, she should be happy, drake got on the track.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, why should all these people have to be thankful that this dude is jumping on their tracks? It's, it's like, why is he doing it? Why is he down there with young thug? Why is he doing this with 21 savage? Why is he in future, always like it's, it's. It's so obvious that he's jumping from person to person for clout. And when Kendrick calls it out, he's like I've been feeling this way, so the fact that he's saying it I know I'm not crazy. I feel like I see the same thing he's saying, and on meet the grounds when he say this is a long lesson on dealing with yourself yeah.
Speaker 2:Long battle with yourself. It really opened my eyes even more to just how I'm like. He is very insecure. He's damn near 40 posting all these little like duck face selfies and bullshit and he looks performative with this child. He's doing things so people could say, oh my god, he's a great father kind of thing. But also he's the boy and he is a bachelor. And I mean, granted, people gonna do what they do, I don't. I can't judge people for not wanting a committed relationship, especially if they're the richest rapper out. But right, I just don't feel like his morals. His head is in the right place. When he talks. He sounds like he's the old cat at the club trying to hang out with the kids. His music sounds like he's the old cat at the club trying to hang out with the kids. His music sounds like he's the old cat at the club trying to hang with the kids.
Speaker 1:Yachty, can't give you no swag either. I don't give a fuck who you hang with.
Speaker 2:Come on now. It's hard, I know these lines man.
Speaker 2:No, no, we'll always know his lines. I hate the way that you walk, the way that you talk. I hate the way that you dress. Come on, man. Best thing about this thing is I've been feeling this way about Drake for a while, but I had to watch him continue to get more success, continue to rise higher, get $500 million from Universal because he's this great person, and then make all that money back so quickly. He's so great and it's like, is he great? And then true greatness comes in and says hold my beer, let me show you what a real rapper looks like. And this dude sues him doesn't sue him, I'm sorry, sues the record label saying that the record label the record label tried to promote this song more than mine in the.
Speaker 2:It's a dispute against contracts and it's like you are showing your true colors yeah, that's the boy right there that is the boy and the idea that he's in this world where he thinks what he did is okay.
Speaker 1:How can you look at that artist, that person and respect him, and it calls into question how much he really latched on to hip-hop teachings.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I know that it's been beaten like a dead horse, the sort of commentary around the lawsuit. But if it's a hip-hop sparring match then it's a hip-hop sparring match and if you set the tone by we can make it personal then you set that tone, but you're still supposed to keep it rap.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how are you going to? You're going to sue somebody for calling you a a PDF file. You're going to sue them, but you literally called them a wife beater in the song before. Yeah, what are you talking about, dude? One of the weirdest things I've ever seen in pop culture.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I want to give Drake a little bit of credit, going back to the idea of him being on people's songs, because there is a world in which Drake would big up somebody or co-sign somebody that I otherwise wouldn't have heard about. Even though More Life wasn't a masterpiece, it took us to the UK scene a little bit and in 2025, I don't know if I would be listening to Lainey Fox or even give Skepta the time of day or anything like that. Not saying that I didn't tap in a little bit, but that's where I guess some of my conflict lies, because I remember when, before 21 Savage's debut album, they did that collab song called Sneakin' I want to say that was like 2015, 2016. And it was kind of like an introductory to 21 Savage and I was just like, wow, this song is fire, the aesthetic of the video is fire. That propelled me to listen to 21 and become a fan.
Speaker 1:But where does that line blur? Where does it become black and white? And then it becomes that business thing. When you look through the lens of business, it's like, yeah, man, you've just been positioning yourself to ingratiate your own bank account. Yeah, like you could give two shits if young thug gets locked up, you give two shits about the perception of sexy red and whatever. It's empty. That's where it feels like a little empty. I want to give Drake a little bit of credit because I have tried to be a fan of his, but he makes it really really, really hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, once again, thank you for listening to the pod today. I love speaking with Jay Boogie and this subject has been on top of my list to cover, so thank you for listening through and hopefully you're enjoying what we're talking about. Make sure to share this pod and subscribe if you haven't already. Hit me up on Instagram if you have any ideas for the pod. And let's just get back into the episode overall, with what has happened in this beef, where it's still pointing out, where, like I said, we feel like kendrick's on lap 12 and he's still going. This concert, this tour, is about to start. Tickets are crazy. We just got offered some tickets for $350 to go see him here in Atlanta.
Speaker 1:We bought ours day one, so we're going to be in there.
Speaker 2:Oh man, I don't know if I could spend that much money to go Not $350, but seeing where he is now and seeing how Drake reacted with the lawsuits and stuff and he supposedly, you know, I don't really care how do you feel this has impacted hip hop as a whole? Do you think it was good for hip hop? Do you think it was bad for hip hop? What do you think? Because last year, even though Not Like Us was the number one hip hop song and it was the number one song all around hip hop kind of took a seat back during the year.
Speaker 2:Tyler put out an incredible project, schoolboy q put out a great project. Joey badass just did the whole thing he has been doing. Might delete. This later came out last year. So it was an incredible year of hip-hop. But also hip-hop wasn't selling as much as it was the year before that. How do you think that like? Do you feel like this beef was something that hip hop needed and do you think that beefs like this will continue to move the culture forward or it might actually impact it in a negative way?
Speaker 1:I think that the beef underscored the importance of what hip hop is at its fundamentals. It's about writing these raps. We are writing these raps In terms of hip hop not selling. I have not given that the deepest thought, but my impulse is to say that that has a lot to do with the music industry as a machine how they promote and what they promote versus what will resonate with an audience. Yeah, With an audience. Yeah, Because we got the GNX, which obviously was a semi-response to the beef, but I think was also being worked on prior to the beef.
Speaker 1:It went off the charts. You cited a lot of people that make great music and there, I believe, are a lot more artists that deserve notoriety, and we got Wiz Khalifa rapping over Squabble Up, Squabble Up. So to me, whether it's about sales or whether it's about we just love this shit again, then I'm happy to get some. We love this shit again, Even if it's not about making money. You mentioned Friday Night Lights. That was a mixtape. We were back on Dat Piff in the Lil Wayne era and downloading mixtapes for free. People who love hip hop were consuming it, whether they were purchasing it or getting it by other means.
Speaker 2:And that's been a way that people have done it since the 90s. My mama was getting mixtapes actually tapes of UGK out of Houston in St Louis and they were buying them from the dude on the bus. He always got the bootlegs, but that's how they were consuming new music. They heard NWA off of mixtape. Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 1:I think it's a good thing. Mixtape yeah, I agree with you. I think it's a good thing. If people want to rap more, whether their output goes up or their creative juices are flowing, and they get more conceptual or want to really get into packaging and rollout, it's going to be beneficial, because Kendrick showed us that we can have success, we can be thoughtful, it can be polished, it can be sort of punk rock in the timelining of it all, and it doesn't have to be overthought and pristine.
Speaker 1:I'm ready for more. I'm ready for whatever is on the other side of this. We don't have to cater we. I'm speaking for artists. I suppose they don't have to be beholden to what Spotify is going to think and maybe when they're doing their contracting they can write something in about. Maybe albums is one thing, but mixtapes and singles or whatever. Lucy's is another thing and I'm not sure what it'll bring, but I think it's positive. I want to see more from everyone and I want it to be less affiliated with radio and statistics. That'll always be a factor, but more art is what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:More art, more art. As an artist my next album I've been pushing the idea of maybe not really worried about streaming platforms trying to find a way to sell physical copies. You know, doing vinyl would be fun, actually getting people to purchase the album on Bandcamp and actually support me directly when you know, I remember I tried to do a GoFundMe kind of thing and I had somebody reach out to me. I'll never forget this. He was a piano player in LA and he was like listen, dominique, I appreciate you, but I don't support artists doing GoFundMe's for money, so I'm not gonna pay any money towards it he doesn't support artists, then yeah, it was weird that he did that.
Speaker 2:But then in my head I'm like if I would ask him to buy my album, I think he would have bought it. That's kind of where my head was. It was like, maybe get the project done, so that when he's like, how can I support you here, buy it right? Okay, great. And that's something that I feel like is spreading over the entire industry now. People are trying to find ways to be more creative and independent, not trying to rely on the big companies and the streaming companies and stuff, and I agree I think that's come because of a lot of the stuff that we've been seeing here. We go now Every night before we sleep, I pull you next to me. I pull you next to me and I tell you how much I love you, babe. We smile and spoon away. This is every day. I hope this will remain the same. Flowers every week. I kiss you on your cheek and you beam. Oh, how I love it, babe. I wouldn't have it any other way. This is every day. I hope this will remain the same.
Speaker 2:This, of course, is a performance of my original tune Valentine's Day. I did this in Chicago at the Lemon Bar for Valentine's Day in 2024. And I wrote it for that actual event and I love the song and I'm looking forward to releasing it on my new album, dommie, sometime this year. But this is also on streaming platforms now. The album is here to entertain volume two. You can listen to my music on all streaming platforms and you can check me out for more information at domlamorecom, where you can get anything and everything. Domlamore, you've passed the test. Every day, I check in with you to see what's new. I listen and tell you all the things I can do to help you. Our love is the best way. This is every day. Who needs Valentine's Day? Cheers to y'all now. Let's hear it now.
Speaker 2:This year, I've been doing a new segment called you Know what I Love. The way this works is very simple. We usually have these deep conversations. Today was a good one, so it wasn't negative but sometimes we could be talking and it gets really, really emotional hard for people to continue. Sometimes people have to take breaks and I always want to find a way to add positive stuff into the shows, no matter what the topic is. So this segment you know what I love. I'm going to tell you something that I'm loving right now and why you should love it. And then I'll ask you the same thing and you'll repeat to me what you love it right now. All right, so for me and like I said, it's very simple I'm going to give you a very simple one. You know what I love.
Speaker 2:I love Ted Drew's custard. That's something from St Louis. Here in Georgia they have Andy's, like other places in the country that you can get like custard and milkshakes and delicious ice cream. I grew up with Ted Drew's down the street on Grand and it is something that I think about every flipping day and I really I miss that about being home. But Andy's is down the street from us now here in Georgia, so I can go there and kind of get a little bit of it. But you know I can't turn the Andy's upside down without it falling out of the cup. That's Drew's, the concretes, you know, and I miss that and I really, really I don't know what it is about ice cream, but I just yeah that's what I'm loving right now Ice cream.
Speaker 1:We got to keep it out of the house because otherwise it'd be gone too quick around here. Shout out Ben and Jerry's, we be at Schnucks. Yeah, the Ben and Jerry's always looking for the sale, like, oh okay, right now it's $6.49. It's a little high, but when it's at $3.99, you better believe we on that Ben and Jerry's. Shout out Andy's too.
Speaker 1:I get the. Sometimes I get the milkshake, sometimes I get a concrete. I know what's up. Shout out ice cream. You know what I love and they came up before. But right now I'm loving the Lakers.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I will preface this with I am a peripheral NBA fan, I'm not getting in there with stats, I'm not following multiple teams and for some reason, over the past three, two, three plus years, I just found myself gravitating to the Lakers. Yeah, and I was born in suburbs of Illinois or suburbs of Chicago, so I got some. Or suburbs of Chicago, so I got some like light, faint, late 90s Bulls fandom and then lived in the Atlanta area for, you know, nine plus years, some some late and distant Hawks. But now I'm getting a little older. Lebron James is getting older. We've witnessed this very storied, impeccable career over the past 20-something years and I've kind of just decided that I want to be able to talk about LeBron James in some capacity and I wasn't really following the NBA too much when he was on Cleveland or I caught a little bit of the heat days, but I want to be able to speak to what it meant for him to be in the NBA. So I've been watching him in his Laker days and he's 40 right now, still putting up triple doubles.
Speaker 1:It's insane, it's unreal. Don't, don't try to. If you see me on the street, let's not talk about anything else, because I don't. I don't know nothing about Philly, I don't know nothing about Toronto, but if you want to say like, oh, austin Reeves, he's shooting above you know X and he had 25 points, he shouldn't be having that, or sorry for our loss ad, we could chat that. But yeah, really really loving the lakers. They're not even the best in the west, you know. So you know that's when it's like some real, just like fandom type stuff, because they got a lot of heart. I'm a miss mack christy as well. He was doing real well on defense, but you know, mavericks got them one now. So, yeah, I'm loving the Lakers right now.
Speaker 2:We've made it to the end of the episode. It's always a good time, always a good conversation. Today, like I said, very light, I wanted it to just be hip hop talk, and I always love talking to hip hop with you. We talked about everything we want to talk about. All I want to know now is how do you feel? I?
Speaker 1:feel good. I feel we only y'all, if y'all are listening right now, we only grazed the surface of this Kendrick Lamar Drake beef. So the last parting words I'm going to say, if you haven't dipped your toes in the question is where have you been? I forgive you. Go listen to first person shooter. Then go listen to like that by future featuring kendrick lamar. Then go listen to push-ups and euphoria and meet the grams and taylor made freestyle if you wish. Go listen to all of that, just so you understand where we're coming from. And then listen to G&X. But no, all that to say, I'm feeling good. Hip hop is probably number one favorite topic to talk about, so I'm always going to be here for that. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2:I appreciate you, man. Cheers to you, cheers. I want to thank you for listening to the Black man Talking Emotions podcast. The opening quote credit goes to Kendrick Lamar and shout out to my guy, john, for being on the pod. Follow John at John Butts is here on Instagram. Please subscribe to the podcast, share the podcast and give us a good rating Five stars, please, and thank you. You can support the show by clicking the link at the bottom of the episode description. If you like this episode, you should check out our previous episode with John Butts, titled Political Talk with John Butts. Good, listen, check it out. Follow me at D-O-M. Underscore L-A-M-O-U-R. On Instagram or at DomLamorecom. I'm Dom Lamore, much love.
